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I just purchased XCOPY and ditched my NEC 1100A DVD writer. I am going to buy a new one and am debating between a multi-format SONY burner (don't like the price) and others like the Pioneer A05. I am concerned about DVD -R/W eventually losing out to the DVD+ format as well. I have also heard that Lite-on is coming out with a multi-format burner and I am debating on waiting for that one. What burner should I buy and where is the best/cheapest place to acquire one?
Whisperer
Senior Member
8 Apr 2003 11:35 PM
The DVD Standards Committee has endorsed only -R as a standard. Many dvd player manufacturers have announced their intention to drop +R compatibility per several dvd websites (do a google search), per several confirming posts on this forum and per my own conversations with the tech staff at Central Computer, Santa Clara, CA. The A05 is a great burner.
These comments will raise the ire of many in the other "camp" which is a normal response since it is human nature to justify the judgement and the expense of the decision to buy what we have already own. So I'm gonna duck for cover on a few threads north of here ... call me when the coast is clear.
Best regards
Tally
Newbie
8 Apr 2003 11:40 PM
Let the games begin......
Jaybo
Inactive
8 Apr 2003 11:49 PM
Tally,
Whisperer,is a very extremely knowledgeable about these things,,( Hi Whisperer! ),, but do you want to take a chance of +R media not going away?
I use the Sony DRU-500A, I like the idea of -R,+R formats. Have you checked Outpost.com and looked at the prices of the 500ax?
Eventually, it is your decision anyway.
Good Luck,
Jaybo
Tally
Newbie
8 Apr 2003 11:54 PM
I am going to see what input I do get and I am hopeful this thread will continue to unfold. I will check outpost.com. Thanks.
Whisperer
Senior Member
9 Apr 2003 1:21 AM
Tally
Jaybo is a very extremely knowledgeable about these things,,( Hi Jaybo! ),, ;-)
But I find it hard to understand why so many people buy sony equiptment. They own 1/2 of Hollywood and are a big force behind the MPAA lawsuit against Studio321. So they are, after-all, the enemy! ... Right? Why are we givin them our money? I don't trust them not to start including copy protection stuff in their burner hardware or firmware and their players eventually. And Sony will also be a big force behind DVD movies manufactured not to be playable on computers (only players) like many music CD's are already (so you can't make MP3's). Don't forget that HP burners are just sony OEM's in disguise.
But Jaybo's idea of a dual standard writer is a good hedge for the "unsure/play-it-safe" mind-set. Research to see if there is another brand that is "dual standard". Me? ... I like Pioneer burners, JVC players and -R, cheap, recordable media.
Best regards
PS: Remember Betamax? Remember the 1rst CD burning standard that sony came out with in the spring of 1988 just before the CD Standards Committee was to assemble and recommend a standard that summer? (Those are just the two big ones to remember) Both standards were shot down by standards committees. Sony has always tried to corner the "royalties market" (IBM wannabe behavior) by coming out with a standard that is counter-current to the direction the rest of the industry is going and flooding alot of money and "lobbying" to get the rest of the manufacturers to "go along" before standards committees have completed their studies and recommendations. This is exactly how the +R camp came into existence. Sony IS the MONEY behind the pushing of the +R standard. (they have learned to hedge their bets, nowadays, by coming out with a few dual +/-R products) This habitual strongarm behavior usually p*isses off the committees so much that they never go with Sony's standards. Sony can't help it ... it's the ingrained Japanese inclination toward total dominance and superiority (god bless them; good guys to have on our side) transfered to peace-time industry!
(Me(?) ... opinionated much(?) ... not! ... it's just that everyone else is wrong and SOMEONE has to point it out! Ahh ... the work of the righteous never ends.
-----------------------------------------------
Win2000Pro, SP3
Supermicro P6DBE MB, latest Ami Bios, 440 BX Chipset
Twin PIII @ 800MHz each
1 Gig RAM
IDE1: 0: HDD: IBM 60GB (Master)(DMA)(OS+DXC)
IDE1: 1: LiteOn 16X DVD ROM (Slave)(DMA)
IDE2: 0: Pioneer A05 (-R) Writer (Master)(DMA)
IDE2: 1: HDD: IBM 60GB (Slave)(DMA)(Pagefile)
----------------------------------------------------
DXC v1.4.1 Only: didn't load drivers
or software bundles for ROM or Writer.
----------------------------------------------------
JVC XV-FA900BK Progressive Scan 7-Disk Changer (-R)
JVC XV-SA600BK Progressive Scan Player (-R)
Sampo DVE-611 Player (-R/-RW)
STI "cheapie" -R Media
augie
Inactive
9 Apr 2003 2:34 AM
Helpful thread guys! Makes me want get rid of my NEC 1100A DVD+RW writer and get DVD-RW. I wasn't aware that DVD standards has endorsed -R as a standard. Would it be a good idea to get a DVD writer with both +R and -R?
drb
Inactive
9 Apr 2003 5:08 AM
The reason I find the dual format sony writer so nesscary isn't because I am afraid that one formatt will die, but is because I have a large family and they own many different type dvd players. This way I can make home movies and burn to whatever type of media their player accecepts.
LG have released a DVD-RW unit that is compatable with this software and you should beable to get at a good price.
Jaybo
Inactive
9 Apr 2003 7:28 AM
Tally,
Whisperer maybe right in his observations. I cannot think of a better way than to use there own product against them.
Do we always have to update our firmware for the drivers and burner to work? No
Will someone else provide a hacked version of firmware to use? Yes. Will it always work? No
Sony, Hp, and others were the leaders in providing +R burners and media. Sony's break to start providing dual format options was nothing more than evolutionary, and to regain market losses it suffered. Lets all set back and watch and see who else follows the pattern of following the market, and decides the dual format burning is the way to go.
One more thing, Sony maybe the ringleader against what we like to do,but they are not the only ones. MGM,Disney,and Twentieth Century,are the henchman trying to stop of our rights too.
My Good Friend Whisperer,made a Great point in another part of the forum about being a lease holder of the DVDs we all thought we purchased.
WELL, the movie studios better change there advertising also, Remember their words? "Own your copy today", ring a bell? Need I say more?
Good Luck,
Jaybo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10 Apr 03 7:26 AM
MAbney
Junior Member
9 Apr 2003 9:15 AM
I use a pioneer A05 burner. I chose this because,they are cheaper than +R drives,the media is cheaper,more compatibilty,and because -R drives are the standard.I decided against the sony because their quality is not what it was 15-20 years ago(remember when the SONY name meant qaulity)and the price.
I just hope that the -R camp doesn't lose out in the endto the +R drives(like beta lost to VHS)
fullchoke
Newbie
9 Apr 2003 9:45 AM
After comparing the sony and the pioneer, I chose the pioneer 105U. I bought my pioneer for $250 less than the sony would have cost me, and many people who have run both have said the pioneer is faster, even though they both have the same write speeds. I checked compatibility with -r media and found that there is plenty of media for both my writer and standalone player. I have no regrets with my decision to buy the pioneer.
mwillett
Member
9 Apr 2003 11:54 AM
I don't know how much cheaper it is, but you mught want to consider the Pioneer DVR-104/A04.
The only difference between it & the 105/A05 is the ability to burn at 4x.
Being on the cheap side, I buy 1x media so the 104 is more than enough for me. I tried some 2x media, which worked, but it wasn't worth it to me for the extra cost.
Sony is a strange one, they are riding both sides. They are on the movie side so they are agaisnt what 321 is doing. However they also sell the burners/media which 321 uses. Sony DVD players also seem to have the best compatibility with DVD recordable media as well.
I would like to think the -R standard will win out since it seems to be supported by more players than the +R standard.
What the future may hold & what if any digital rights limitations Sony & the others will build into their hardware, who knows.
For now I am happy with my Pioneer DVR-104, 1x media & using Sony players. But everything changes.
Tally
Newbie
9 Apr 2003 10:40 PM
Well this is sure a lot of good information. It appears to me that Whisperer and Jaybo have jousted before. It seems there is a Pioneer camp and Sony camp out there. Any reason to buy the A04 Pioneer over the A05 or visa versa?
MAbney
Junior Member
9 Apr 2003 11:23 PM
The A04/104 is a 2X burner,A05/105 4X. If your not going to spend the extra money on 4X blanks, then you don't need the A05/105. Save yourself the money and buy the A04/104
FYI- the A03,A04,A05 are Pioneer branded drives(Pioneer is stenciled on the front of cd tray),whereas the 103,104,105 are generic Pioneer drives,identical to the A's except for the stencil,and the "A" drives are usually more expensive.
Tally
Newbie
9 Apr 2003 11:38 PM
A comment to augie - I bought a Dell computer that came with the NEC 1100A. Many on the Dell forum and this forum in threads that I have read are having problems with 1100A with DXC. I returned it to Dell for a full refund via their 30 day guarantee. I really should have checked this forum before settling on the 1100A so now I am in the market for a new burner. I am really leaning toward the Pioneer as it seems to have the fewest issues with "cheap" media and I am backing up a very large DVD collection and playing on APEX DVD players.
321143
Member
10 Apr 2003 3:53 AM
Question #1
How long does it take to format a -RW disk as compared to +RW?
Question #2
How long does it take to finalize a -R disk as compared to +R?
Question #3a,b
Does DVD-R(RW) support the Mount Rainier standard and are there any advantages to having a drive utilizing Mount Rainier?
Question #4
Are there any other uses for a dvd burner other than backing up dvd,s and if so what are the advantages of having a -RW drive over a +RW drive?
Question #5
What other technical advantages to consumers does -R(RW) media have over
+R(RW) media other than cost or suppositive compatibility advantages?
Question #6a,b
Does the DVD+RW Alliance include any companies other than Sony or HP, and if so what is the likelihood of a DVD+RW Alliance collapse?
(Please no reference to -R(RW) prior to 01/03 or references to any afterdawn
forum or DXC)
ps: My personal observation with the DVD+RW Alliance is that they may try
to make it more difficult backing up copyrighted material, no matter
who writes the software.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12 Apr 03 8:50 AM
Jaybo
Inactive
10 Apr 2003 7:25 AM
Tally,
Whisperer,and I are friends. We have never jousted. We can rib one another with no hurt feelings, or taking what we say as a personal attack.
I stand by my statement that Whisperer is an extremely knowledgeable person.
The question you asked leads to debate on this issue.
321143,,
Great Point,and references!
Good Luck with your Choice,
Jaybo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10 Apr 03 7:36 AM
burnman67
Junior Member
10 Apr 2003 10:54 AM
PCWorld has the definitive comparison review of DVD burners here:
I have the NEC 1100A with Dell mentioned here and am very happy with it. Works like a dream. The only problems are, that +R discs cost twice as much and the fear that +R might be a dying breed... The interesting thing with this NEC is, that before it came out, it was advertised in Europe as being +R/-R. Then they changed the specifications and NEC's +/- burner got a completely new name. It might also be that was due to the fact that Dell is in the + camp. Anyway, I wonder whether the 1100 would still have the +/- hardware capability that is somehow disabled?
svenj
Junior Member
10 Apr 2003 11:43 AM
NEC's multiformat burner is 1300A even though, as I mentioned, they advertised 1100A as multiformat before the release.
dawg70
Junior Member
10 Apr 2003 12:10 PM
I'm just an average joe who just tries to 2-year-old-boy-proof everything within his reach. I did my homework and decided to go with -R. The advantages listed on dvdplus.org are way over my head. I did test the quality on PC, TV and plasma and I couldn't tell any difference.
The only problem I encountered with -R was movies that maxed out disc's 4.4 GB. Nero couldn't finalize but the movies were viewable toward the end and froze. +R burned all the way thru. This could be an isolated incident since I never have this problem with Hollywood movies. (If someone came across this issue and got a solution, please shed some light.)
The fact that Sony added -R into its lineup proves this format is not dying and has become a threat to Sony's +R format.
Dawg
Whisperer
Senior Member
10 Apr 2003 1:18 PM
burnman67
I always worry a little about reviews that are in magazines that accept advertising. PC World mag is a good publication but even so ... I wonder if something, advertising biased might get "slipped-in" to the lineup. I like independent, no-profit studies
Best regards
whompus
Senior Member
10 Apr 2003 1:42 PM
In my eyes whatever burner I am making backups that work for me is the best one out. In reality the multi format is the way to go. Simply because of nothing to do with anything dieing + or - but because my player might support + moms might not dads may or may not and so on. The more options offered the better I always think.
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g8torb8t
Newbie
10 Apr 2003 2:19 PM
I have a Pioneer A05 and A04. My Brother has the new Sony. He wishes he had bought one of the Pioneers after using mine and his. You figure it out.
